yes, i see , at begin , i only want to do a hardware and software, i support more forum to do open source .
as you know , we support lemaker to do open-source community with lemaker.org , support Dr luo for bananapi.com . but bananapi.com is very slow. so we must create ourself community.
hope you can give us some good idea.
BPI-M3 use 8G emmc flash on board KLM8G1GEAC-B001(eMMC4.5_FNT_based_e_MMC) datasheet download： https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4PAo2nW2KfnaWZqUDZvZC1HMjA/view?usp=sharing
Great! And what does this mean exactly? The final product version will use the crappy Micro-USB-connector instead of the DC jack you list in the so called ‘user manual’ and posted a picture of in the very same post?
we have design two way on BPI-M3, we can choose when manufacture it. micro USB is choose by defalut, and DC power choose by option
How is the Micro USB Connector crappy? I think its much better than the DC jack.
The connector itself is crappy by design since the tiny contacts aren’t able to feed more than 1.8A. While this might be perfectly ok for a mobile phone using this connector on a board with a few USB ports and a SATA power connector is simply insane. But as written so many times: SinoVoip didn’t learn a single lesson from past mistakes.
The other and more important problem with the Micro USB connector is that people try to use crappy USB cables. And there exist a lot. Back at a time when not bananapi.com hosted the ‘official support forum’ but instead lemaker.org I wrote about this problem in detail: http://forum.lemaker.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=8312
And the ‘funny’ thing is: People never ever will understand that the problem is called undervoltage. They experience random shutdowns under load (since crappy cables lead to undervoltage situations only when the device needs more power) and think: OMG, I need a PSU that is rated higher. So they buy one with 5V/4A (which is completely useless since more than 1.8A will not be delivered through the crappy Micro USB connector) that brings an own cable and realise: Now it works (due to the better cable not the more amperage the PSU could theoretically provide) and attribute that to the higher amperage rating of the PSU and start to spread the word about their power hungry device needing 4A.
Maybe Lion Wang thinks it might be better to be compatible to the M1 in this area because the sales of the M2 suck. The problem is: That might be true but is caused by the horrible software and support situation and the fact that all these totally incompatible boards are all called ‘Banana Pi’ which tricks people into the assumption that software might be compatible.
This is a typical support case: Battery for BPI-M2 configuration - need help (NO answers). The manufacturer simply doesn’t give a sh*t regarding software issues. And regarding informations/support they simply say anything that you might want to hear. Please compare with http://www.bananapi.com/index.php/forum/advanced-users/993-banana-pi-bpi-m3-sample-have-test-ok-are-you-love-this-spec?start=24#4166 if in doubt. Lion Wang really told Tido that at SinoVoip they developed internally mainline kernel code for the A83T while the linux-sunxi developers just added the most basic support for the A83T in the meantime: http://linux-sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort
What does this mean? SinoVoip hired kernel developers that did already all the work the linux-sunxi folks are about to do in the next months (LOL!) and this would mean they do closed source development and don’t contribute to the community’s open source development. Or this means that Lion said something that’s not true at all. Hopefully because he misunderstood something.
You may be right about Banana Pi support.
But not the MicroUSB! MicroUSB are strong enough to handle may more than 2A if the actually receiver, adapter, and the cable supports it. The Banana Pi only takes about 300mAh so there is still plenty of power to go around.
Well, if you leave the crappy cable aside, you still face the problem about the plug. It does only fit in one direction A mobile phone you charge for 2-3h and you are done, the Banana you want to keep plugged for days /weeks. The contacts are very thin.
The DC Jack, is robust. Can deliver more Power. The cables are usually thicker 96boards also uses DC Jack If you chose the right plug & DC Jack it does hold eachother, so if you have vibration and may be on a wall the plug will not fall out.
If you design the Board like LeMaker BaseBoard, it can cope with 5-12V so you can use your old router or modem Power-Supply to feed the M3
yes, micro USB support 2A , many time it is enough for user , so we defaults support micro USB, so easy to find adapter with USB port ,
if anyone need more power . we can support DC port. all is choose by user.,or you can DIY micro USB port to DC port by youself
Allright, fair enough.
Let’s go back to the SOFTWARE and how you support the community:
we will update to github about 2015-11-15 all driver on BPI-M3. In the FOSS (free libre open source software) community we like to help. So release early, release often is very common. Why do you wait so long, Nov. 15. ?
DTS ; DTB do you have engineers working on that?
Device Tree Source ; Device Tree Blob
Will you upload it separately to GitHub so we can easy find it?
For the M3? Useless, this device is only supported by Allwinner’s horribly outdated 3.4.39 kernel. And maybe they also chose an oudated u-boot version (like with the M2 back then) so you won’t be able to exchange script.bin. Software support for the M3 will be even more horrible as with the M2 due to the A83T SoC being not supported by mainline kernel.
@projectbananapi: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Micro-USB_1_01.pdf (specifications exist for a reason. 1.8A is the maximum and crappy cables are widely spread. Using the Micro-USB connector is simply asking for troubles – but hey, the user gets in trouble and the manufacturer doesn’t care as usual)
Time to stop posting here. It’s useless. If one compares with manufacturers who really do ‘open source hardware’ then it’s obvious what’s wrong with SinoVoip: They don’t understand what ‘open source’ means, they don’t listen to their customers, they have no clue about software issues at all and the situation with the M3 will be as horrible as with the M2 a few months ago (even more – only kernel 3.4.39 available!)
It could work like this: https://olimex.wordpress.com/2015/10/23/a64-olinuxino-update/#comment-20081 (manufacturer and community at eye level – community contributing to the product design and manufacturer listening and implementing)
You should become a bit familiar with the stuff you’re talking about. I’m using extensive monitoring when doing tests and going productive with systems (be it big iron or in this case a small video surveillance server).
This is a Lamobo R1 powered the crappy way (Micro-USB) vs. a sane way (using the LiPo battery connector that can be used to insert 5V since the PMU disables charging capabilities when the voltage here is above 4.2V). The only nice thing about the R1 is its ability to internally measure the consumption of the whole board including a connected SATA disk.
http://forum.armbian.com/index.php/topic/15-lamobo-r-1-sata-power/?p=897
7.5W-8W without Wi-Fi being used, no USB peripherals and an energy efficient Samsung Spinpoint M9. 7.5 - 8 W translates to 1.5 - 1.6 A. Use an internal USB hub (like on the M3), an USB-to-SATA bridge (like on the M3), a few USB peripherals, turn Wi-Fi on and let the disk spin up and you easily exceed 2A. The crappy Micro-USB connector is rated for 1.8A max and powering the board this way leads to voltage drops.
But I understand: If you don’t look close enough what’s really happening then Micro-USB is the connector of choice (its the worst choice… so hey, this must be SinoVoip’s default!)
Since the correction of the Specs, in this thread we found out some more. I agree with tkaiser that you can easily exeed 1,8A especially at startup. An electric motor (in the hard disc) will consume 2-3 more than idle, therefore it would be better to have DC port as standard, but if you don’t - I recommend to adjust the Specs.
I would change this to: Power Source Micro-USB (default); optional 5V DC port (center positive 1,6 x 4,4mm) – do not specify 2A here, it is just about the connector not about power consumption –
Storage Support SDcard (up to 64GB) SATA (up to 2TB - USB-to-SATA: GL830) eMMC 8GB (optional)
USB Ports 2 x USB2.0, Micro-USB OTG
I meant the M1. I saw a power consumption test on a website. I am positive I did not mess up any information there.
8G emmc is on board ,not option.
Thank you for your answer. I add one last request to make the Specs fully understandable. For someone who has not read this posts, you need to add this picture as well.
Cheers Tido
There are two versions of the board?
no ,just one hardware version,when we manufacture BPI-M3,we can choose which power support，just component different．
projectbananapi: If you look at the PCB from rear-side you see two (2) holes below the DC port. So the PCB is manufactured that it can hold Micro-USB or the DC port - well done from the engineers. Still, you should upload this picture to the Specs site so people (customers) can see the difference.
Well, actually you have two (2) BOM (bill of material)
May be even more part numbers, because you can may be chose eMMC 8, 16, 32GB. M3-001-08 = DC port power-connector version, 08GB M3-001-16 = DC port power-connector version, 16GB
So you only change one (1) THT part on the PCB, but the effect for the customer and you (support) can be big.
Just if I think about this, you should create part numbers and list these on the Specs site. Different connectors means different specification, right?
Which ‘Specs site’? This or this or this or this or … don’t you understand that this sort of products can’t have ‘specifications’ since the people trying to sell them simply don’t give a sh*t regarding correct informations.
Please remember: The Banana Pi M2 never had composite video. But SinoVoip listed it in their so called ‘specs’ (copy&paste garbage from somewhere else). People from all over the world tried to return their M2 since resellers again did copy&paste of this wrong information. Did they changed the ‘specs’ on any of the many sites where this stuff might be listed? Did they informed their resellers that this is clearly a wrong information? Nope, since they don’t care at all. It’s not a problem for them (“I spread wrong/misleading informations. But hey, why should I care or correct that mistake? The customer already was dumb enough to buy my product!”)
The same happens now with the M3 and the ‘is SATA capable’ lie. They don’t give a sh*t that it’s not true and they refuse to correct their ‘specs’.