Banana Pi BPI-R4 Wifi 7 BE14 - Pigtails and Antennas

[M10 (M)]

https://a.aliexpress.com/_ExrbOVF

Those would be the best one, three with 10cm and three with 15cm, but this case project is bs and You have to put all cables in shitty way, i hate this .

[matthew_d (Matthew)]

I don’t think the bottleneck right now will be pigtails and higher dBi antennas. We don’t even have a proper stable driver yet If you really want top performance you should probably wait for BE19000, with 14 antennas. But again, I doubt it will matter much unless you have dozens of concurrent users.

[Betonmischer]

So I tried those antennas by Antsym (5.8 GHz, single band, allegedly 8 dB) combined with RG178 pigtails. My Tx speed (from the router to the client) has stayed roughly the same at 2.05 Gpbs on the 6 GHz band 320 MHz and 1.56 on 5 GHz 160 MHz. However the Rx speed went up from 920–930 Mbps to 1.05–1.12 Gbps on both bands. All tested with the stock BPI image in close proximity. Not a dramatic improvement by any means, but an improvement nonetheless.

Pigtail length of 10 and 15 cm was barely enough for the official metal case. I’d suggest 20 and 25 cm ones for easier routing.

[TheUnwiseOne]

If you really want top performance you should probably wait for BE19000, with 14 antennas.

Is it confirmed or still in the hope stages that this is actually being released?

[Lorem_amicus (Michael Fischer)]

Your answer is in this chat:

Banana Pi BPI-R4 Wifi 7 Module design

Here is the answer regarding plans for be19 Good day! This is Wendy of BananaPi, I am glad to hear you are the owner of BPI-R4. BE19, we still have the plan to design it, but it is delayed and will take more time. I think it will not available this year. If you would like to use a wifi module soon, please try BE14. For your any more query, welcome to let me know. Best Regards

This is NOT the chat for BE14 or BE19 wifi module.

→ This is the chat for:

“BE14 - Pigtails and Antennas”

[Lorem_amicus (Michael Fischer)]

This chat was established for someone who wanted to know how long the pigtails should be.

The problem is, you mostly buy the pigtails and antennas together with the BE14 board. That’s why it’s good to think about it beforehand (If you even care about). First time “right” …

For me, it’s not about the bottleneck. And yes, BE19 is better.

What changed my mind about “one antenna for all” is this post by Dale:

Antennas and pigtails for BPI-R3

I ordered the Antsym 5ghz antennas, I ran some iperf3 tests from a ~15m distance. you can see the improvement from the dual band antennas [image]

Betonmischer tested it in close range:

Banana Pi BPI-R4 Wifi 7 BE14 - Pigtails and Antennas

So I tried those antennas by Antsym (5.8 GHz, single band, allegedly 8 dB) combined with RG178 pigtails. My Tx speed (from the router to the client) has stayed roughly the same at 2.05 Gpbs on the 6 GHz band 320 MHz and 1.56 on 5 GHz 160 MHz. However the Rx speed went up from 920–930 Mbps to 1.05–1.12 Gbps on both bands. All tested with the stock BPI image in close proximity. Not a dramatic improvement by any means, but an improvement nonetheless. Pigtail length of 10 and 15 cm was barely enoug…

It depends on your use case what is enough for you!

[TheUnwiseOne]

This is NOT the chat for BE14 or BE19 wifi module.

It was an aside reply to a comment posted here as I hadn’t heard anything about the BE19 until the person mentioned it so was curious. It’s as tangentially related to this topic as your comment “Sounds interesting … why do you want do build an x86_64 system? I thought x84 is dying. ” was in the thread you directed me to for the Wifi 7 Module design. That’s kind of how discussions work.

[Lorem_amicus (Michael Fischer)]

Yes, I’m curious too, just like you . And I make mistakes because of it .

But I also realize the importance of staying on topic. It’s not meant to be evil!

The common chats about (BE14) BE19 release date are closed. The people are waiting and are impatient for any information about it. I wanted to put out the fire before the house burns . If you interested in it, start a new topic I didn’t want this chat to be closed because of too many different topics…

[Thanks]

[Thanks]

@Lorem_amicus

What changed my mind about “one antenna for all” is this post by Dale:

You will change your mind again.

@KosVas tested several antennas:

@KosVas

I have tried 3 different antennas.

Single band antennas

1. AntSym:

   • 2.4GHz (x4): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804341693078.html

   • 5GHz (x4): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804955572991.html

   This combo worked quite well for me. With 10 meters and 1 reinforced concrete wall between BPI-R3 and Intel AX200 i was able to get 600-650Mbps download at 5Ghz band and 80Mhz. The reason I decided to replace these antennas is that 5Ghz are too long for my BPI-R3 placement.

Dual band antennas

1. NoName “8bBi dualband antennas” (x8):

   • https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803117614208.html

   Worked quite well for 2.4Ghz and not so good for 5Ghz, but still was able to handle 600Mbps download more or less stable. I would say that real specification of these is 5dBi for 2.4GHz an 3dBi for 5GHz band.

2. ALFA ARS-NT5B (x8):

   • Bought in local shop

   It is the best option for me. Provides best Signal and SNR ratio and provides rock stable 800+Mbps.

[EAN]

Hi. I bought this product https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005007523900753.html?spm=a2g2w.orderdetail.0.0.2fcb4aa6kYnJBT&sku_id=12000041139429865 But the board is different from the original in the photo and video. Some elements are not soldered. Is this ok? ))

https://youtu.be/hg5pSbc_C68?si=77shEJDUVtInkf4a&t=69

Other topics (more suitable) are closed for some reason.

Edit: offtopic,but answered here: Banana Pi BPI-R4 Wifi 7 BE14 - missing components - #2 by simon

[Betonmischer]

My board is missing those SMDs too. It’s common practice for electronics manufacturers to cut out superfluous components going from a prototype to a release product. Nothing to worry about.

[Lorem_amicus (Michael Fischer)]

Sorry to tell you that, but their is an explanation why the other (more suitable) topics are closed:

Because these people have done what you have done …

As you have already noticed is this the chat for pigtails and antennas. NOT for missing components!

I created a new chat for your topic:

Banana Pi BPI-R4 Wifi 7 BE14 - missing components

[grafik] [grafik] [Banana Pi BPI-R4 MediaTek MT7988A (Filogic 880) OpenWRT Wifi 7 Router complete instI-allation video] [grafik]

The button to create a new topic is on the main page at the bottom right :

https://forum.banana-pi.org/

[Thanks]

There are several tri-band dipole antennas for WiFi 7 from different brands for sale on Mouser and DigiKey:

• Mouser
• DigiKey

.

Here they sell the new tri-band dipole antenna for WiFi 7 from ALFA Network:

• ALFA ARS-NT5B7

Information

I have asked ALFA Network on their official website if this new WiFi 7 antenna really exists and if Rockland is an authorized distributor and they answered me this:

[SpectreDev]

What’s the best antenna I could buy

[Thanks]

I think these pigtails with right angle RP-SMA connector and RG178 cable would be better for BPI-R4 and BPI-R3 than the regular ones, maybe the length of the cables should be 20 cm for BPI-R4 and 25 cm for BPI-R3:

AliExpress Links:

• RP-SMA F Right Angle: TUOLNK (5PCS) - BEVOTOP (2PCS) - BEVOTOP (10PCS)

  

To pass the antenna wires under the board and make it look nice and clean, as @as_jt shows here:

Banana pi R3 fan with PWM

My cooling system. [20230304_220045]

[Thanks]

@SpectreDev

What’s the best antenna I could buy

About the tri-band antennas mentioned above, I don’t know, someone has to buy the antennas and test them in the real world, maybe @VA1DER can find out by looking at the datasheets.

According to @VA1DER the order of the antennas from the best to good, would be like this:

Dipole antenna

1. Taoglas: GW.52.A153 ---------------------------------- (Datasheet)
2. TE Connectivity: ANT-W63WS6-IPW1-RPS ----- (Datasheet)
3. KYOCERA AVX: X1005800-W5DRMB ------------- (Datasheet)
4. Amphenol RF: ST1228-40-501-A ------------------- (Datasheet)
5. Taoglas: GW.59.3153 ----------------------------------- (Datasheet)
6. Joymax: TWX-614XRS3B ----------------------------- (Datasheet)
7. Joymax: TWX-180BRS3B ----------------------------- (Datasheet)
8. Joymax: TWX-721XRS3B ----------------------------- (Datasheet)
9. ALFA Network: ARS-NT5B7 -------------------------- (Datasheet)

Monopole antenna

• Siretta: DELTA37/SMAM/RP/S/36 ------------------- (Datasheet)

.

I’ve added one of the best monopole antennas in case anyone wants to test it.

Information about dipole and monopole antennas:

• What is the difference between a monopole and dipole antenna?
• What is the difference between a dipole and a monopole antenna? Which one is better for WiFi communication, and why?
• What are the advantages of a dipole antenna over a monopole as dipoles are more commonly used?
• Monopole vs Dipole Antenna
• Difference between Dipole Antenna and Monopole Antenna
• All About Wireless: Antenna Types and Characteristics
• Dipole or monopole?

@Quora Bot

A monopole antenna and a dipole antenna are both common types of antennas used in various applications, including WiFi communication. Here’s a breakdown of their differences and advantages:

Monopole Antenna

• Structure: A monopole antenna consists of a single radiating element, typically mounted above a conductive surface (ground plane). It is essentially half of a dipole antenna.
• Length: The length of a monopole is usually a quarter of the wavelength (λ/4) of the frequency it is designed to transmit or receive.
• Radiation Pattern: Monopole antennas typically have an omnidirectional radiation pattern in the horizontal plane, meaning they radiate equally in all directions around the vertical axis.
• Impedance: They typically have an impedance of about 36.5 ohms, but when used with a ground plane, they can be matched to standard 50-ohm systems.

Dipole Antenna

• Structure: A dipole antenna consists of two radiating elements, each a quarter wavelength long, making the total length half of the wavelength (λ/2).
• Length: The total length is λ/2, and each arm is λ/4.
• Radiation Pattern: Dipole antennas also have an omnidirectional radiation pattern, but they tend to have a slightly different distribution of radiation strength, with nulls (areas of reduced signal) along the axis of the dipole.
• Impedance: A typical dipole antenna has an impedance of about 73 ohms.

Comparison for WiFi Communication

• Performance: Both antennas can be effective for WiFi communication. However, dipole antennas generally offer better performance in terms of gain and bandwidth, especially in environments with obstacles or interference.
• Size and Design: Monopole antennas are often smaller and easier to implement, making them suitable for compact devices (like mobile phones and some WiFi routers). Dipole antennas can be larger and may require more space.
• Installation: Dipole antennas may require more careful positioning to optimize their performance due to their radiation pattern, while monopole antennas can often be easier to install.

Conclusion

For WiFi communication, the choice between a monopole and a dipole antenna depends on the specific application and environment. If space is limited and a compact design is necessary, a monopole may be preferable. However, for optimal performance, especially in terms of gain and coverage, a dipole antenna is generally considered better.

In practice, the decision may also be influenced by other factors such as cost, availability, and specific design requirements of the WiFi system being used.

@Quora Bot

Dipole antennas are often preferred over monopole antennas for several reasons. Here are some key advantages of dipole antennas:

1. Radiation Pattern: Dipole antennas typically have a more uniform radiation pattern, often providing better omnidirectional coverage in the horizontal plane. This makes them suitable for applications where a consistent coverage area is needed.
2. Efficiency: Dipole antennas can be more efficient in certain configurations, especially when properly matched to the feed line. They can radiate energy more effectively because they do not rely on ground reflection for their radiation pattern as much as monopoles do.
3. Bandwidth: Dipole antennas can offer wider bandwidth compared to monopole antennas, especially when designed with specific materials or configurations. This makes them suitable for applications requiring a range of frequencies.
4. Impedance Matching: Dipole antennas typically have a higher feed point impedance (around 73 ohms for a center-fed dipole) compared to monopoles, which can simplify impedance matching with certain feed lines.
5. Ground Dependency: Monopole antennas require a good ground plane for effective operation, as they rely on the ground for reflected signals. Dipoles are less dependent on ground conditions, making them more versatile in various environments.
6. Construction and Size: Dipole antennas can be easier to construct and deploy in certain situations. They can be made from simple materials and can be scaled for different frequencies without significant complexity.
7. Polarization: Dipole antennas can be easily configured for different polarizations (horizontal or vertical) by changing their orientation, providing flexibility for specific communication needs.
8. Reduced Interference: In some cases, dipole antennas can exhibit reduced interference from ground-based noise sources compared to monopoles, making them suitable for sensitive applications.

In summary, while both dipole and monopole antennas have their applications, dipoles offer advantages in terms of radiation patterns, efficiency, bandwidth, and versatility, which often makes them the preferred choice in many scenarios.

@Sahir Ahmed

Dipole is better for WiFi communication as external dipole antennas can be controlled directionally. Thus, if the antennas are perfectly positioned, they can provide a stronger signal in a given direction. Directionally controlling signals works best outdoors where there are few obstacles to signals.

@Imam Hasan

As it has been pointed out monopole antenna acts as dipole virtual antenna after getting nearby reflections. The other advantage of dipole antenna is electromagnetic field pattern, which covers far more area than monopole antenna. Dipole coverage also tends to be less lossy than monopole as well. Since, in dipole two poles always maintain different polarity, it takes half peak voltage (but same power) to produce same signal strength of monopole antenna.

[SpectreDev]

wow, theyre expensive, are they charging for 1 antenna or 2

[Thanks]

“Cheap is expensive”

The older ARS-NT5B dual band antenna from ALFA Network is cheap on eBay:

• 3 antennas for $14 (older model, not the new tri-band model)
• 4 antennas for $18 (older model, not the new tri-band model)

Maybe you can buy three ARS-NT5B dual band antennas for the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands and three tri-band antennas mentioned in the next post for the 6/7 GHz band.

And if you want the best antennas for all bands (2.4 GHz, 5 GHz and 6/7 GHz) then buy 6 good tri-band antennas, although it will be more expensive.

[VA1DER (Kurt Fitzner)]

@Thanks

• TE Connectivity: ANT-W63WS6-IPW1-RPS ----- (Datasheet)
• Taoglas: GW.52.A153 ---------------------------------- (Datasheet)
• ALFA Network: ARS-NT5B7 ------------------------- (Datasheet)

The first two have good data sheets. The third has a very weak one.

Antenna 1 and 2 look to have similar characteristics. Antenna 2’s data sheet is more comprehensive and includes data on the ground plane in two orientations. For our purposes, the closest match is “On 9x15 ground plane bent”. Antenna 2 appears to be a little superior to 1 for 2.4GHz efficiency with ground plane. It’s hard to compare them at 5 and 6 GHz because antenna 2 splits their data into different board orientations, and antenna 1 doesn’t. That said, I suspect antenna 1’s orientation is 15x9, or at least it looks that way in the diagram, and if that’s the case then antenna 2 appears to have somewhat better efficiency at 5 and 6 GHz also.

Antenna 3 only publishes VSWR data and it appears to be free-space measurements only, so it’s really hard to compare.

@SpectreDev

wow, theyre expensive, are they charging for 1 antenna or 2

When someone goes to all the work to create proper data sheets free-space and ground-plane VSWR/Return Loss/efficiency charts and proper 3d radiation patterns, that bumps the price up.