Voltage drops on DC-IN

Banana Pi SBCs design BPI-M3(A83T/R18)
6

I would suspect it’s still the voltage. That’s important since everyone complaining about power problems is asked “how much is your PSU rated?”, then they answer “2A” and will be advised to go with 5V/3A (USELESS since the shitty connector isn’t able to exceed 2A and only rated for 1.8A).

Sometimes these ‘stronger’ PSU seem to work. But most of the times this is due to a better/different cable between PSU and board and not the more theoretically available current :slight_smile:

This is already general knowledge for boards that can’t exceed 2A in consumption (like Banana Pi M1). The M3 when running under full load with good heat dissipation, a few USB peripherals and a connected disk might easily consume 3A. Using micro USB here is just moronic.

7

Why did BPI-M3 use micro USB otg for power? It seems though causing problem because I get SBC turned off time to time. I am not sure what really causes it because I am not measuring anything, but I suspect voltage drop or low current due to too many devices or chips connected.

What can be solution for this? I hope SINOVOIP comes up with something soon because this is not very good. Voltage or current shortage can’t really be the answer logically because other devices (cell phones or other smart devices) probably use more DC then BPI-M3. What do you all think?

8

Why do you think smartphones would draw more current than the M3? Have you read through the available review? Or http://linux-sunxi.org/Banana_Pi_M3?

If the CPU is able to draw 8W then micro USB is the wrong decision.

9

You seem to think, but you are not creative enough.

  1. On top of this thread TK explained the problem, just scroll up and read and try to understand.
  2. Tablet or mobilephone come with accu, does your M3 have an accu ?

On top of this thread TK explained the problem

10

Oh, I got it! thanks!

Well, I am not even close to be expert in this department at all. I am probably a newbie who is barely thinking…

So this issue cannot be resolved without hardware change?

11

Wow that’s 0.4V less. If the PSU only provides 5V then that would mean it’s just 4.6V. No wonder the board gets in trouble then.

How should electricity be fixed with software? Did you measure whether you’re affected by the same problem?

12

If you know someone who can solder, it is easy to fix. Parts you get at FARNELL, CONRAD & such.

You can try limiting the CPU frequency (i.e. max 1GHz), make it slow. It will then take less power. Do not attach USB devices or only via external-powered-USBhub. No SATA Harddisk, only via external-powered-USBhub.

actually without soldering - you can put it away.

13

But this can not be considered a solution? The board is advertised as being capable to run at 2GHz: http://www.banana-pi.org/m3.html

And that’s the reason customers want to buy it. At least that was one of the reasons I thought about ‘upgrading’ my M1+ to M3. If I understand the thermal issues right it’s not possible to exceed 1.2 GHz without a heatsink? And according to this thread where heatsink and fan are used it seems not possible to exceed 1.8Ghz anyway: Set CPU clock speed to 2GHz

There’s something wrong with the product specs when the advertised CPU performance can not be used or even the clockspeed has to be limited to half of the maximum to use the board without power troubles!

@sinovoip please clarify this urgently.

14

I ordered one of these for my supply… China crud, but will see how it works. 5v/3A

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161366094825?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I soldered pins on top (didn’t have a DC jack handy)

So hopefully once the plug comes in off the boat, maybe can keep it powered on for more than 30 seconds.

Cable I am using now, one side is USB, has an on/off switch, and DC jack on the other end. Not sure where it came from, found it in my box of random cables.

15

Well, unless there are different versions, I guess we are all affected by the same problem with BPI-M3. As you suggested right below, if it can be resolved by dropping its clock speed, it should be reviewed. 8 cores of 1GHz will still be faster than 4 cores of 1GHz.

Stability must be achieved with BPI-M3 soon. Otherwise other SBC’s will catch up very soon. I don’t think competitors are just watching.

16

Yes, but No If the software you are running only makes use of one core - then your other 7 cores are pretty useless :joy: SinoVoip caught you ice cold :mask:

17

I have been using a few power adapters came with my Samsung phones. They are all 5V 2.0A otg adapters. Then I also had a couple of power adapters which were given by a phone store. These are not made by Samsung nor anyone well known. However, I found out that its specification saying 5.0V 2.5A OUTPUT!!! Wow, I was just checking to see if they provide 2.0A, but now I have two microUSB power adapters providing 2.5A! Immediately, I tried the adapter on my BPI-M3. It seemed to work fine. Nothing blew up. I just wanted to make sure nothing becomes too hot. Actually, USB-SATA bridge chip was somewhat hot after I connected SATA HDD. With 2.5A power, the board was pretty stable even with SATA, HDMI out, and USB devices.

I don’t know if we can say that our power issue with M3 is at rest now if we use 2.5A adapters yet. At least it is working OK for now. I am planning to run for awhile and find out unless SINOVOIP comes up with something better.

I am trying to backtrack to purchase many of these 2.5A adapters for now.

I will re-post again about this… Thanks!

18

Have you already measured how much the board consumes when you use it with these other power adapters? If not, you can’t draw any conclusions.

Have you already made a full load test? If not, you can’t draw any conclusions.

It’s a well known fact that micro USB can’t exceed 2A so the cables/adapters you use now just suck less than the chargers you used before.

Due to the dvfs settings Vcore will be increased to 1000mV or even 1080mV when reaching 1800 MHz. And then CPU activity alone is responsible for a whopping 8W consumption. And while this might work in a test environment with just a serial console attached it can’t work in a normal environment with a connected display, a few USB peripherals and a connected disk needing another 4-5W exceeding 12W easily. Micro USB is rated 5V/1.8A max: 9W or maybe 10W under best conditions (most likely due to crappy USB cables the board’s PMU will diagnose undervoltage way earlier and shuts down).

In case you improve heat dissipation be prepared for shut-offs unless you solder a sane DC-IN solution and use 5V/3A at least (won’t help with micro USB due to the tiny contacts)

(quoted from the sunxi wiki). So please optimise heat dissipation, run a full load test and provide consumption numbers using a power meter.

19

Dracon, why do you waste your time with @seities - if a person in this area (SBC) does not know how to solder a wire to a hole in the board or recognize limitation of a plug, it is just not worth to talk about. Unless this person is a hell of a coder :smile: Same about @Beaver

sadly but true.

20

Nothing is close to any conclusion yet.

I don’t have equipment nor time although I am very interested in the subject. In fact, I probably don’t have enough knowledge to do so anyway.

21

Soldering a wire or two can be done on my board, but I won’t be able to do so for all BPI-M3 boards.

I am here to gather information on BPI-M3 since there are some issues. By accident, it seems as one of issues bypassed (not resolved), I just wanted to share what I experienced although nothing is confirmed by various tests.

Sadly but truly, I have to admit that I know next to nothing about SBC’s or not even close to be a hell of a coder, but surely I am an engineer providing solutions to problems. Please be understanding that I am not here to criticize anyone’s idea nor to be criticized for my poor knowledge although I am open to any sort of information to learn and help me get closer to solve issues that I am having.

22

Sorry, but choosing micro USB was not by accident but by intention. Pre-production samples used a quality DC-IN power barrel as it is in use with the M2 already. Then the BPi folks went crazy and exchanged this with micro USB for the production batch: Please, update Specs of M3

And I fear I have to agree with Tido. When you’re not able take real tests others already made into account (just read through this thread from top to bottom and follow some links!) then it’s not worth to further discuss this. At least for me the 2 disadvantages of micro USB are known and accepted: Limited maximum current (1.8A by specifications, maybe 2A in reality) and always risking undervoltage situations where the board might suddenly power off.

Since the M3 is incompatible to the original Banana Pi M1 I would better go with other A83T/H8 boards like the Cubietruck Plus if I really need the octa-core power of the CPU: http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/12/28/cubietruck-plus-development-board-with-displayport-hdmi-sells-for-84-in-china/#comment-521141

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It is not my intention to be mean to you, just honest.

  1. As I wrote before, you must have software that can make use of all 8 cores.
  2. If you order more, you can ask for different power-connector

What puzzels me: If I look at your profile, it says something about Korea. If so, why don’t you checkout the http://www.hardkernel.com ? Made in Korea.

24

Well, Tido, I am one and only SINOVOIP distributor in Korea.

I have to deal with angry customers if this problem is not resolved! Plus, I won’t be able to sell more BPI-M3’s. Does it explain?

I want a quick and simple fix. That’s all.

Please don’t get me wrong. I’d like to discuss issues and get closer to possible solutions and share information. I am guessing that’s why we are all here, right?

RISC processor are made for multiprocessing, and ARM is one of them. Linux itself will use 8 cores, and we can always write programs which can utilize all eight cores if necessary. In addition, I totally recommend M1 and M1+ to my customers, but they like M3. I also like M3 due to its CPU performance and eMMC on board.

I agree! I think it is a design fault by SINOVOIP using otg to supply power. Now, at least, I know I can get this damn thing working without any power issue when I am using 2.5A otg power adapter. I am looking into limits and negative effects of high currents of otg power. If you have information, I would appreciate some.

Well, you don’t have to be a Korean to live in Korea. As a matter fact, I am an American, but I am also Korean. However, legally, I am not a Korean at all.

Although I don’t own an odroid, I think it is a good SBC. However, it is too expensive and too much of SBC. A fan on SBC? That, I don’t like it. For now, I don’t like odroid because I am a BPI distributor! lol~

Sincerely, thanks for your comments!

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I admit that Tido and you are right.

I am planning to look into this a little more because now I have seen 2.5A otg power supply. I didn’t invent one, but it was given by a cell phone store. Plus, it have been powering up my BPI-M3 running Ubuntu for over a day now.

I even recommended one of my customers to solder a real power adapter connector. I know SINOVOIP is going to release 2nd batch of BPI-M3’s, and I wonder if there will be any fixes.